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[16:08] <bluemonkey_66> The point of this chat is to familiarize you with level2, and to teach you both how to use it, and what to look for. This means the mechanics, and the techniques. Al, manytix, our Noble Trading Rep, has offered to help us with the mechanics. He'll go first, then we'll ask questions, and then I'll follow with some tips and techniques.
[16:08] <Manytix1> the data on the demo ID is simulated (recorded)
[16:08] <Manytix1> so you may not be able to follow me closely if you dont have
[16:08] <popa_> and it's old?
[16:08] <Manytix1> yes
[16:09] <Manytix1> it is
[16:09] <Manytix1> we will discuss this after the tutorial
[16:09] <Cone> you're talking about the nobletradingsim correct? manytix?
[16:09] <bluemonkey_66> Manytix will discuss this
[16:09] <Manytix1> yes cone
[16:09] <bluemonkey_66> and the basics...
[16:09] <bluemonkey_66> we will not open this to questions until they are asked for
[16:09] <bluemonkey_66> this will happen periodically
[16:09] <bluemonkey_66> write the questions that you have down
[16:10] <bluemonkey_66> do not ask in chat until they are asked for
[16:10] <bluemonkey_66> there is a method to the madness, and we will try to create a flow...
[16:10] <bluemonkey_66> manytix will start
[16:10] <Manytix1> OK Im going to start off with the actual Level 2 box in the software
[16:10] <Manytix1> does everyone see the level 2 box in their software
[16:11] <duckman> yes
[16:11] <popa_> level2 window u mean? yes
[16:11] <Manytix1> yes
[16:11] <loeber> yes
[16:11] <Manytix1> it consists of bids and asks
[16:11] <Manytix1> with different prices that are gerouped and color coordinated
[16:11] <Manytix1> ok
[16:11] <bird> no, i'm not pls. check pm al
[16:12] <Manytix1> whenj people refer to Level 2 this box is what they are referring to
[16:12] <Manytix1> ok
[16:12] <Manytix1> now
[16:12] <Manytix1> the actual level 2 box consists
[16:12] <Manytix1> of the level 2 quotes
[16:12] <chio1> SORRY but i copied down wrong id
[16:13] <Manytix1> but it also has an execution panle above
[16:13] <Manytix1> from which you will execute your orders
[16:13] <Manytix1> I will go into that later
[16:13] <Manytix1> but for now I jsut want you to pay attentino to the Level 2 quotes
[16:13] <_scuba> al, use QLGC as your ex. ok?
[16:13] <Manytix1> On the left hand side you have all of your Bid prices and on the right you have yout ask prices
[16:13] <popa_> lol scuba
[16:13] <Manytix1> ok
[16:14] <Manytix1> evryone type QLGC into your elvel2 window
[16:14] <Manytix1> type it is on the upper left hand corner of L2 window in the white box
[16:14] <Manytix1> for those fo you using Nobel demo
[16:14] <Manytix1> Now all level 2 deos
[16:15] <Manytix1> is list all market participants
[16:15] <Manytix1> for that given security
[16:15] <Manytix1> i tiwll giev you their name (MMID) the price they are looking to either buuy(bid) sell(ask)
[16:15] <Manytix1> and the volume
[16:15] <Manytix1> which is the amount of shares that participant is lookign to buy or sell
[16:15] <Manytix1> Level 2 is simply a list
[16:16] <Manytix1> of all the market participants
[16:16] <Manytix1> listed in order or price
[16:16] <Manytix1> and colo corrdinated
[16:16] <Manytix1> coordinated
[16:16] <Manytix1> now
[16:16] <Manytix1> for stocks
[16:16] <Manytix1> you have an inside market
[16:16] <Manytix1> that is your highest bidder and lowest seller(ask)
[16:16] <Manytix1> for those using Nobel demo
[16:17] <Manytix1> what is the inside market
[16:17] <Manytix1> fro QLGC right nwo
[16:17] <Manytix1> now
[16:17] <loeber> 38.01 bid 38.00 ask
[16:17] <fv> 38.01-38.05
[16:18] <duckman> 38x38.01
[16:18] <Cone> i have no numbers at all on my demo, do I need to use 'logon'?
[16:18] <popa_> 75.625-
[16:18] <popa_> 75.625-75.750
[16:18] <Manytix1> very good
[16:18] <Manytix1> that is correct
[16:18] <popa_> why my numbers are off?
[16:18] <Manytix1> popa the demo is recorded
[16:18] <Manytix1> as i have sais
[16:18] <bluemonkey_66> note, u guys are both right...understand that the numbers in the demo are old data
[16:18] <duckman> qlgc
[16:18] <Manytix1> it is simulated
[16:19] <popa_> ok
[16:19] <Manytix1> exactly thank you blue
[16:19] <bluemonkey_66> they are from month and month ago
[16:19] <Manytix1> tyou are all right
[16:19] <Manytix1> popa is looking at a demo with recorded data
[16:19] <Manytix1> so prices are different
[16:19] <Manytix1> ok
[16:19] <Manytix1> now the yellow is goign to be the inside market
[16:19] <Manytix1> this is what youw ill get with a web-based broker
[16:20] <Manytix1> they will tell you the current bid ans ask price
[16:20] <Manytix1> but you cant see hwo many shares, who is on the bid/ask and how many people are looking to buy/sell at the next level
[16:20] <Manytix1> hence the name level 2
[16:20] <bluemonkey_66> a web-based broker is a broker that only tells you the best bid and best ask
[16:20] <popa_> like datek streamer i guess
[16:20] <Manytix1> level 2 will show you ALL of the market participants
[16:21] <Manytix1> ok
[16:21] <Manytix1> SO
[16:21] <Manytix1> and everyone particpiate
[16:21] <Manytix1> with ot without demo ID
[16:21] <Manytix1> what is the second level down on the ask for QLGC
[16:21] <Manytix1> and how amny share total
[16:22] <popa_> 2@75.5 - 3@75.938
[16:22] <fv> 100X38.04
[16:22] <Manytix1> good popoa you gave me both bid and ask
[16:23] <popa_> 200@75.5 - 300@75.938
[16:23] <Manytix1> food fv
[16:23] <Manytix1> lol
[16:23] <Manytix1> good
[16:23] <Manytix1> very good
[16:23] <fv> :)
[16:23] <Manytix1> im hungry
[16:23] <Manytix1> hehehehe
[16:23] <bluemonkey_66> 1 = 100 10 = 1000 shares
[16:23] <popa_> <<csco beat by 2 >>
[16:23] <Manytix1> thank you blue
[16:23] <Manytix1> also
[16:24] <Manytix1> the size column on the level 2 is in 100's
[16:24] <Manytix1> so 1 = 100
[16:24] <Manytix1> 10 = 1000 etc
[16:24] <Manytix1> so far is everyone comfortable with reading level 2
[16:25] <loeber> yes
[16:25] <duckman> yes
[16:25] <Manytix1> if you are not let me know
[16:25] <fv> yup
[16:25] <Manytix1> i can expalin further
[16:25] <Manytix1> ok good
[16:25] <popa_> go ahead
[16:25] <Manytix1> for those of you not using the Noble demo
[16:25] <Manytix1> do you guys have a Time and Sales window?
[16:25] <fv> yup
[16:26] <duckman> probably but cant find it, realtick
[16:26] <chip> yes
[16:26] <Manytix1> those of you using Noble it is the box to the right of the L2 that has the stock symbol on the top
[16:26] <popa_> yep
[16:26] <Manytix1> with a bunch of prices a number in the middle and tiem
[16:26] <loeber> yes
[16:26] <Manytix1> time
[16:26] <Manytix1> ok
[16:26] <Manytix1> \this is very important
[16:26] <duckman> got to time and sales
[16:26] <duckman> got the...
[16:27] <Manytix1> the T&S window will simply record and print every transaction for that given security
[16:27] <Manytix1> whenever a trade goes off it will be printed in teh T&S window
[16:27] <Manytix1> each line is called a "print"
[16:27] <Manytix1> the prints come from the top
[16:28] <Manytix1> and are read as follows: on demo
[16:28] <twosocks> Many, even if a trade is placed at an ecn and filled at the ecn, will it show?
[16:28] <Manytix1> a 100 shrea transaction of QLGC went off at 17:08:07
[16:28] <Manytix1> ALL transactions will be printed
[16:29] <Manytix1> doesnt matter how it gets filled
[16:29] <Manytix1> the T&S window
[16:29] <Manytix1> will show the transaction price
[16:29] <twosocks> HOw about the bid and ask?
[16:29] <Manytix1> the number of shares which is also in 100's and the time of the transaction
[16:29] <Manytix1> which is in military time
[16:29] <Manytix1> 17:00 = 5:00
[16:30] <bluemonkey_66> eastern time
[16:30] <Manytix1> now this is important b/e it will show how the stock prices physically move
[16:30] <Manytix1> EST thank you blue
[16:30] <Manytix1> Now
[16:30] <Manytix1> you notice
[16:30] <Manytix1> while describing the T&S window I say transactions
[16:30] <Manytix1> I do not say buy and sell
[16:30] <Manytix1> because it is a transaction
[16:31] <Manytix1> a transaction consists of a buy and sell
[16:31] <Manytix1> if you are buying someone is selling to you
[16:31] <Manytix1> and vice versa
[16:31] <Manytix1> youll notice
[16:31] <Manytix1> when you look in the T&S window
[16:31] <Manytix1> that the prints come in at different colors
[16:32] <Manytix1> this is telling you where the transaction went off
[16:32] <Manytix1> this is very important
[16:32] <Manytix1> there are several possibilities
[16:33] <Manytix1> a transaction can go off at the bid price, the ask price, in between the bid ans ask (called the spread)
[16:33] <Manytix1> or
[16:33] <Manytix1> below the bid and above the ask
[16:33] <Manytix1> now being that it is after market
[16:33] <Manytix1> its a little harder to follow and see
[16:33] <Manytix1> looking at the level 2
[16:33] <Manytix1> Now IM loooking at the demo ID
[16:33] <Manytix1> QLGC
[16:34] <Manytix1> I see that REDI is high bid by himslef at 76.625 for 100 shares
[16:34] <Manytix1> and the next level down on the bid there are 2 people at 75.50 bidding 200 shares total
[16:34] <Manytix1> ok
[16:34] <Manytix1> now
[16:35] <Manytix1> what is going to happen to the market price
[16:35] <Manytix1> of QLGC if REDI gets filled by someone for the 100 shares he is bidding for?
[16:35] <Manytix1> (We are assuming that he ONLY has 100 shares to buy)
[16:35] <popa_> bid drops to 75.5?
[16:36] <Manytix1> EXACTLY
[16:36] <fv> inside market moves if the next quantity is at another $$$
[16:36] <Manytix1> exactly fv
[16:36] <Manytix1> the market price, assuming that nobody else is looking to buy any shares at that price
[16:36] <Manytix1> will move to the next level down
[16:36] <Manytix1> now
[16:37] <Manytix1> REDI was high bi
[16:37] <Manytix1> bid
[16:37] <Manytix1> he was the only one there
[16:37] <Manytix1> a transaction on the bid price went off
[16:38] <Manytix1> and what happens when Redi gets filled on all of the shares he is bidding for
[16:38] <Manytix1> the stock price
[16:38] <Manytix1> will drop down to the next level
[16:38] <Manytix1> in T$S window when you see a transaction going off at the bid price it will come up as a red print
[16:39] <Manytix1> if you see a transaction go off at the ask price
[16:39] <Manytix1> it will be displayed int he T&S window as a blue print
[16:39] <Manytix1> Conversly if you are looking at your T&S window and you see may blue prints going off
[16:39] <Manytix1> the stock market price will probably go up
[16:40] <popa_> blue or green?
[16:40] <Manytix1> Does everyone see the realtionship between the T&S window and L2
[16:40] <Manytix1> blue
[16:40] <Manytix1> green
[16:40] <Manytix1> is a print that goes off between the spread
[16:40] <popa_> blue is for spread?
[16:40] <Manytix1> It is easier to during market hours
[16:40] <Manytix1> no popa
[16:40] <Manytix1> green is betweent he spread
[16:40] <popa_> ooops..sorry
[16:41] <Manytix1> its ok
[16:41] <Manytix1> so you guys are comfortable with the T&S and L2
[16:41] <bluemonkey_66> do the dat and ecns ls manytix and let me take over
[16:41] <Manytix1> ok
[16:41] <bluemonkey_66> pls
[16:41] <Manytix1> ok
[16:41] <Manytix1> that stuff is very basic
[16:41] <Manytix1> and if you dont fully understand
[16:41] <Manytix1> you can pm me
[16:41] <Manytix1> and ill schedule a demo time 1on1
[16:42] <Manytix1> but i would like
[16:42] <Manytix1> to turn our attention to the actual routing on the software
[16:42] <Manytix1> the nut and bolts of it
[16:42] <Manytix1> directly above the Bid
[16:42] <Manytix1> prices
[16:43] <Manytix1> The Nasdaq market
[16:43] <Manytix1> is comprised of ECN's and MM's
[16:43] <Manytix1> There are only 9 ECN's I believe
[16:43] <Manytix1> ISLD, REDI, ARCA, INCA, BRUT, ATTN, BTRD, MKXT
[16:43] <Manytix1> and the other one slips my mind
[16:44] <Manytix1> but it is not very liquid
[16:44] <Manytix1> the most liquid ECN is ISLD
[16:44] <fv> ntrd?
[16:44] <Manytix1> that may be it fv
[16:44] <Manytix1> im not sure
[16:44] <Manytix1> you will hardly ever see it
[16:44] <Manytix1> on the software
[16:45] <Manytix1> you have the ability to have your orders be represented
[16:45] <Manytix1> directly by ISLD or ARCA
[16:45] <jes> sorry, i still couldn't find noble demo, pls tell me, thx
[16:45] <Manytix1> on Nas orders
[16:45] <bluemonkey_66> jes, too late sorry
[16:45] <bluemonkey_66> ask tomorrow
[16:45] <Manytix1> a good majority of time you wil use ISLD
[16:46] <Manytix1> because youa re going to see ISLD in the level 2 the most often
[16:46] <Manytix1> Arca is good
[16:46] <Manytix1> but they fees are a little high
[16:46] <Manytix1> Isld is the most efficient
[16:47] <Manytix1> I would love to go through all of the order routing options of a direct access software
[16:47] <Manytix1> but it si much easier to do over the phone
[16:47] <bluemonkey_66> I can't spend much time here so I am going to interrupt
[16:47] <bluemonkey_66> thanks manytix
[16:47] <bluemonkey_66> let's move ahead
[16:47] <Manytix1> anyone interested in continuing the demosntration please pm me
[16:47] <Manytix1> youre welcome
[16:48] <bluemonkey_66> the level2 is meant for having a full mkt view
[16:48] <bluemonkey_66> they allow you to see everything
[16:48] <bluemonkey_66> all the mkt
[16:48] <bluemonkey_66> but
[16:48] <bluemonkey_66> if a ecn has a bid in
[16:48] <bluemonkey_66> and it gets sold into
[16:48] <bluemonkey_66> he may have another one right behind it
[16:48] <bluemonkey_66> at slightly lower price
[16:48] <bluemonkey_66> sometimes even at the same price
[16:48] <fv> i can have a "reserve"on my L2
[16:48] <bluemonkey_66> the ecn shows his best bid/ask all the time
[16:48] <Manytix1> yes fv
[16:49] <bluemonkey_66> and when the best is sold or bought the second best appears
[16:49] <bluemonkey_66> this is important
[16:49] <Manytix1> reserve allows you to place an order for ex: 2000 shares and only shoe 500 shares at a time
[16:49] <bluemonkey_66> there are 3 that I watch
[16:49] <bluemonkey_66> INCA, ISLD, REDI
[16:49] <bluemonkey_66> because these have the most power imo
[16:49] <bluemonkey_66> INCA moreso
[16:49] <bluemonkey_66> some would argue that REDI doesn't
[16:49] <bluemonkey_66> bvut I warn you that they are powerful
[16:50] <bluemonkey_66> if INCA is riding the bid of a stock all day
[16:50] <bluemonkey_66> try to avoid shorting
[16:50] <bluemonkey_66> until they go away
[16:50] <bluemonkey_66> INCA can sit there all day long
[16:50] <bluemonkey_66> and buy like there is no end in sight
[16:50] <bluemonkey_66> that's is a simple hint
[16:50] <bluemonkey_66> always watch which MM or ECN is buying or selling
[16:51] <bluemonkey_66> and watch when you decide to make trading decisions of the stocks
[16:51] <bluemonkey_66> keep your eyes on those 3...
[16:51] <bluemonkey_66> the more you have on ur side the better
[16:51] <bluemonkey_66> also
[16:51] <bluemonkey_66> watch for the size of the orders
[16:51] <bluemonkey_66> 100 shares order are piddly
[16:51] <bluemonkey_66> and matter not
[16:51] <bluemonkey_66> but 100 and up make a difference
[16:51] <bluemonkey_66> and can move the Market
[16:52] <bluemonkey_66> keep ur eyes open for them and when u see them appear at the bid or ask make note
[16:52] <bluemonkey_66> also make note how that order fluctauate
[16:52] <twosocks> you mean 1000 shares
[16:52] <bluemonkey_66> often you will find the order sits there all the time
[16:52] <bluemonkey_66> 1000 shares yes
[16:52] <bluemonkey_66> the order may just sit on the bid side of the mkt and act as a support level
[16:52] <bluemonkey_66> or the ask side and act as resistance
[16:53] <bluemonkey_66> the larger the order the more support or res it offers
[16:53] <bluemonkey_66> what we like to see is a combo
[16:53] <bluemonkey_66> of not only a big order
[16:53] <bluemonkey_66> but also multiple ecn and mms at the same price
[16:53] <bluemonkey_66> usually we find this at round numbers
[16:53] <bluemonkey_66> 38 is an example in qlgc today if you were watching
[16:54] <bluemonkey_66> because we saw so many sellers at 38 from time to time we knew, in the middle of the day, that 38 was going to be tough to break higher
[16:54] <bluemonkey_66> the interesting part though
[16:54] <bluemonkey_66> is when those offers, in this case, began to dissolve...
[16:54] <bluemonkey_66> when the offer begins to get hit,
[16:55] <bluemonkey_66> and that large order begins to dissolve
[16:55] <bluemonkey_66> you have a clear warning that the stock is about to move
[16:55] <bluemonkey_66> if your stop was 38.01, you could be relatively sure that if the big seller at 38 was being taken out your order would soon be hit
[16:55] <bluemonkey_66> you watch the level2 for these patterns
[16:56] <bluemonkey_66> but
[16:56] <bluemonkey_66> when the seller, in this case gets taken out
[16:56] <bluemonkey_66> watch to see where he appears again
[16:56] <bluemonkey_66> if he appears again with size you know he is selling into the Market and not showing all his hand, usually
[16:57] <bluemonkey_66> again, INCA is probably the most powerful of this bunch
[16:57] <bluemonkey_66> a rule of thumb is don't fight INCA
[16:57] <bluemonkey_66> so...I'm going to backtrack
[16:58] <bluemonkey_66> the reason we use level2 is not to determine where to buy or where to sell/stop
[16:58] <bluemonkey_66> we have other tools for that, that are easier
[16:58] <bluemonkey_66> but what we use it for is for those specific prices
[16:58] <bluemonkey_66> ie...
[16:58] <bluemonkey_66> where exactly are we willing to buy
[16:58] <bluemonkey_66> and where exactly should we set our stop
[16:58] <bluemonkey_66> if we see a row of bidders right above our trigger price
[16:59] <bluemonkey_66> that may be a sign to enter a little early
[16:59] <bluemonkey_66> and if we see a bunch right above our stop that may be a sign to stop a little late
[16:59] <bluemonkey_66> whatever the case, level2 fine tunes your trading
[16:59] <bluemonkey_66> after getting the basics from the charts/fib/etc...
[16:59] <bluemonkey_66> the level2 allows you to get down to the penny
[17:00] <bluemonkey_66> and this is based solely on the numbers of buyers, vs the number of sellers, in the stock when you are trying to buy/sell it
[17:00] <bluemonkey_66> does this make sense?
[17:00] <tayler> yup
[17:00] <loeber> yes
[17:01] <bluemonkey_66> let's say we are in a stock and the stop is near
[17:01] <bluemonkey_66> let's say the stop is 38.03
[17:01] <bluemonkey_66> but
[17:01] <bluemonkey_66> let's also say that 38 has a big row of sellers
[17:01] <bluemonkey_66> with a large seller like INCA dominate
[17:02] <bluemonkey_66> then lets say the mkt begins to move up
[17:02] <bluemonkey_66> and that large sellers begins to get taken out
[17:02] <bluemonkey_66> and the little ones around him too...
[17:02] <bluemonkey_66> what can you assume?
[17:02] <loeber> the price is going to move up
[17:02] <twosocks> sell above 38.03
[17:02] <bluemonkey_66> it's like a resistance line
[17:03] <bluemonkey_66> a line of defense
[17:03] <bluemonkey_66> that is breaking
[17:03] <bluemonkey_66> that alerts you to get your stop ready to hit
[17:03] <bluemonkey_66> and maybe even to place the order
[17:03] <bluemonkey_66> if it is not in...
[17:03] <bluemonkey_66> it is a warning
[17:03] <bluemonkey_66> plain and simple
[17:03] <bluemonkey_66> and this is what level2 tells us
[17:03] <bluemonkey_66> it warns us to breaks of lines of support or resistance
[17:04] <bluemonkey_66> and if we are accurate, these will be near the support and res levels we offer from the charts or fib numbers
[17:04] <bluemonkey_66> the beauty of dat is that you can buy at a specific number exactly just by clicking on that number
[17:05] <bluemonkey_66> or short
[17:05] <bluemonkey_66> no typing
[17:05] <bluemonkey_66> just clicking
[17:05] <bluemonkey_66> and it takes far less time
[17:05] <bluemonkey_66> time that is usually very valuable
[17:05] <bluemonkey_66> especially when you see a stock begin to lose its line of support/res
[17:05] <bluemonkey_66> level2 dat is the only way to trade
[17:06] <bluemonkey_66> anything else in ancient imo
[17:06] <bluemonkey_66> without seeing the whole mkt you are doing urself a disservice
[17:06] <bluemonkey_66> and without the speed of DAT you are a few steps behind too
[17:06] <bluemonkey_66> what are your questions...
[17:06] <bluemonkey_66> there must be a handful
[17:06] <fv> can MMs hide their ID behind an ECN to dump large orders or "fake" orders?
[17:07] <loeber> could you give more detail on the clicking to buy, it puts in the price, but what route to use?
[17:07] <bluemonkey_66> well, they can't hide behind another player
[17:07] <bluemonkey_66> but they can hide behind a small order
[17:07] <bluemonkey_66> in other words
[17:07] <fv> but can SBSH og on island?
[17:07] <bluemonkey_66> they may have a 100K share order
[17:07] <chio1> please explain the "just clicking". does it mean that if you click on a price higher or lower the the inside market that price is yours
[17:07] <bluemonkey_66> that they don't want to show
[17:08] <fv> ok
[17:08] <bluemonkey_66> so they show 1K shares
[17:08] <bluemonkey_66> and just keep adding to it
[17:08] <twosocks> IF I sell 1000 shares into a bid at 38.0 of 200 shares, I get filled a good % of the time, why?
[17:08] <fv> "refreshing it"
[17:08] <fv> ?
[17:08] <bluemonkey_66> refreshing it means that they keep 1000 showing until the 100K is gone
[17:09] <bluemonkey_66> over and over
[17:09] <fv> ok
[17:09] <bluemonkey_66> sometimes they pull it
[17:09] <Manytix1> fv toerhs can go through ISLD
[17:09] <Manytix1> others
[17:09] <bluemonkey_66> wait for the mkt to move a little, and hit it again
[17:09] <loeber> after you click for taking a price, what routs to use?
[17:09] <Manytix1> point and click refers to clicking in the level 2 on the bid/ask to select your price and route
[17:10] <bluemonkey_66> re 200 and you get 1000, is it usually an ISLD trade?
[17:10] <twosocks> often yes
[17:10] <bluemonkey_66> because typically ISLD has the liquidity to fill that
[17:10] <bluemonkey_66> and most others don't
[17:10] <twosocks> thats what I dont understand. why doesnt that show
[17:11] <bluemonkey_66> but are you saying that the sole bid is 200 shares?
[17:11] <Manytix1> two.. you have ability to place hidden ISLD orders
[17:11] <twosocks> yes
[17:11] <bluemonkey_66> or are there other bidders?
[17:11] <Manytix1> or reserve orders
[17:11] <bluemonkey_66> 'manytix knows more about this than me
[17:11] <bluemonkey_66> I'll let him discuss this for you
[17:11] <Manytix1> reserve orders show only a portion of the true roder size of the order
[17:11] <twosocks> on isld right re hidden?
[17:11] <Manytix1> yes two
[17:12] <Manytix1> the problem with hidden ISLD orders
[17:12] <Manytix1> is that you lose your place in line
[17:12] <Manytix1> meaning your roder loses priority
[17:12] <Manytix1> so even if you have a larger order and were there frist others on ISLD will get filled before you
[17:13] <Manytix1> I would recommend using Reserve orders instead of Hidden
[17:13] <Manytix1> unless teh stock has a lot of volume
[17:13] <Manytix1> like CSCO
[17:13] <loeber> reserve orders do not lose place in line then?
[17:13] <Manytix1> point and click
[17:13] <Manytix1> no
[17:13] <Manytix1> they do now loeber
[17:13] <Manytix1> not
[17:14] <Manytix1> routing
[17:14] <Manytix1> ISLD is the only option
[17:14] <Manytix1> there are giong to eb times when you wnat to buuy and the current ask
[17:14] <Manytix1> and ISLD is not there
[17:14] <Manytix1> there are several options you ca use
[17:14] <Manytix1> to get filled quickly
[17:14] <Manytix1> scenario1
[17:15] <Manytix1> if isld is not there and you see MM's
[17:15] <Manytix1> you shoudl use SOES
[17:15] <Manytix1> so you click onthe price in L@
[17:15] <Manytix1> and choose SOES as your route
[17:15] <Manytix1> and click buy
[17:15] <Manytix1> Your done
[17:15] <Manytix1> Filled
[17:15] <Manytix1> Soes is very fast
[17:15] <Manytix1> if there are MMs there
[17:15] <Manytix1> and inexpensive
[17:16] <Manytix1> only .002 per share plus.1 for the trade
[17:16] <Manytix1> scenario2
[17:16] <Manytix1> Isld is not there and there are not many MM
[17:16] <Manytix1> less than 2
[17:16] <Manytix1> in this situation
[17:16] <Manytix1> you can use either ARCA
[17:16] <Manytix1> or GNET
[17:17] <Manytix1> ARCA is a ECN
[17:17] <Manytix1> and has its own book like ISLD
[17:17] <popa_> how to tell who's buying at ask price?
[17:17] <Manytix1> but will solicit your order to others if it doesnt have a mathcing price
[17:17] <Manytix1> popa im referring to
[17:17] <Manytix1> when you want ot buy a stock at the ask price
[17:18] <Manytix1> blue gives a trigger
[17:18] <Manytix1> and you look at the ask
[17:18] <Manytix1> in the L2
[17:18] <Manytix1> and you dont see ISLD
[17:18] <Manytix1> and there is only 1 MM showing 100 shares
[17:18] <Manytix1> you can either use ARCA or GNET
[17:19] <Manytix1> I would try GNET first because it si cheaper
[17:19] <Manytix1> .0035
[17:19] <Manytix1> ARCA is .005
[17:19] <loeber> how much ?
[17:19] <Manytix1> per share
[17:19] <popa_> if one really wants to buy a lot of shares they would rather use refreshing 1000 shares - what's the purpose then to chase the stock up with 30000 shares bid going up three or four levels up? are they real buyers or just pumpers?
[17:19] <Manytix1> but for executions it depends on the stock
[17:19] <twosocks> Manyt, does any of your software offer auto routing?
[17:20] <Manytix1> yes two
[17:20] <Manytix1> but IMO
[17:20] <Manytix1> auto sucks
[17:20] <twosocks> why?
[17:20] <Manytix1> if they are showing 30,000 popa iw ould say pumpers
[17:21] <Manytix1> nobody would want to purposely show such a large order
[17:21] <Manytix1> two because many of the auto routing
[17:21] <Manytix1> go through at some point or another SNET
[17:21] <Manytix1> and SNET
[17:21] <Manytix1> you ONLY want to use as a last resort
[17:21] <Manytix1> with all of the routing options you should never have to use SNET
[17:22] <Manytix1> it ia an out-dated technology
[17:22] <popa_> are there level2 quotes for nyse stocks ( like tradescape used to have) ?
[17:22] <Manytix1> yes popa
[17:22] <Manytix1> SNET is like buying a 8-track player
[17:22] <Manytix1> you wouldnt do it
[17:22] <popa_> noble has it or there are in general
[17:22] <fv> occasionally i have had orders loiter in soes (15 seconds?) when i sent a market order (ex: when the inside mkt is 1 cent wide). how long do MMs have to accept/reject an order?
[17:22] <Manytix1> all level 2's should have listed (NYSE and AMEX) L2 quotes
[17:23] <Manytix1> they have 90 seconds
[17:23] <fv> ouch. :)
[17:23] <Manytix1> with SOES they are supposed to take it immediately
[17:23] <Manytix1> I use SOES often
[17:23] <Manytix1> with SUPERSOES
[17:23] <Manytix1> it si great
[17:23] <Manytix1> is
[17:23] <Manytix1> i always use them if tehre are MM's there
[17:23] <Manytix1> two
[17:24] <Manytix1> order routing is a sales feauture
[17:24] <Manytix1> its not nearly as efficient as knowing how to route your orders yourself
[17:24] <chio1> is soes good for all nas stocks and is superesoes better
[17:24] <popa_> other than checking t&s list how one can say if offers were canceled/taken out of the market or were hit with actual buys?
[17:24] <Manytix1> if you have soes now it is supersoes
[17:24] <Manytix1> it is only used on nas stocks
[17:25] <chio1> txs
[17:25] <Manytix1> youre welcome
[17:25] <bluemonkey_66> this chat lasted a lot longer than I thought
[17:25] <bluemonkey_66> but did it help you all?
[17:25] <fv> yup!
[17:25] <popa_> lotsa questions bm...u lucky there's not a full house...lol
[17:25] <chio1> yes
[17:25] <bigbob21> yes
[17:26] <popa_> yes
[17:26] <bluemonkey_66> if you all have follow up questions...for me or manytix
[17:26] <popa_> can we do level2 part2 edu chat?
[17:26] <bluemonkey_66> you can always ask real time in chat
[17:26] <bluemonkey_66> best to ask in chat popa
[17:26] <bluemonkey_66> and ask real time
[17:26] <Manytix1> if you guiys
[17:26] <popa_> ok...
[17:26] <Manytix1> have questions about order routing or software point and click
[17:26] <popa_> great edu chat, thanks bm and manytix
[17:26] <Manytix1> you can always ask me through out the day
[17:27] <popa_> are we shorting mxim tomorrow and bying csco bm?
[17:27] <Manytix1> even if you are not Noble clients
[17:27] <Manytix1> lol
[17:27] <popa_> ;-)
[17:27] <Manytix1> thank you popa
[17:27] <fv> yes thx many & bm
[17:27] <nb> Thanks BM and Many.
[17:27] <chio1> will do thanks guys
[17:27] <bluemonkey_66> talk to you all manana
[17:27] <Manytix1> youre welcome all
[17:27] <popa_> good night bm
[17:27] <Manytix1> youve been a great crowd
[17:27] <Manytix1> lol
[17:27] <popa_> godd night all